I had made a point in a post below about customer service and this is a copy of that text.
--------------------------------------
As the manufacturer and marketing agent, my customer service history is impeccable. As everyone that has ever purchased a GRT-III trigger (as well as the original GTX-III trigger) knows, I am personally available to answer any and all questions regarding the GRT-III trigger. Although it rarely happens, if there is an installation problem, I’m always available and respond usually within minutes of being made aware of it either by phone if a number is provided or an immediate e-mail. My customers contact me directly and don’t go through some commercial third party. They can go directly to the source.
Do you think for one minute Steve will provide that kind of personal service? Just read on.
-------------------------------------------
One of our members sent me an e-mail pointing something out after visiting the AOA site where a certain trigger is being sold. This disclaimer is in smaller print print at the bottom of the page.
**Note: For instructions and support we provide the guides linked on this page. This is the full extent of the support we can supply on these custom parts. Please do not call with installation questions or instruction as we cannot give any verbal support. These custom parts carry no warranty, and use may void factory warranty on the product to which they are installed. Airguns of Arizona assumes no liability on the safety or function of the products listed on this page. All sales on these parts are final.
This information certainly is not being revealed, pointed out or provided openly by the "provider" to the members on the YP's or the Crosman forum or anybody else. Unless the buyer reads the small print (and most don't) and he's not aware of it, he's stuck with his purchase.
It's one of those cases of "Buyer beware". You buy it and if you have problems, have it for lunch.
Then, a member of the GTA forum posted on the YP's. This is the text in part (with his question) to save room.
"Now I'm very excited about your GTX trigger, and am dieing to give it a try ! But I'm a little set back, afraid, that if i can't get it working as advertised, I'll have no one to go to for help ! The add over at AOA says, no additional help, no refunds ??? Now not being a great air gunsmith and designer like you, I may run into some problems ! Can I count on you for help should I need it ?
Respectfully, Bill"
The response.....none ... and within twelve minutes it was deleted.
This is the type of service that can be expected it seems. And AOA was wise indeed for adding that disclaimer to the bottom of the page. It will probably create a huge problem for Steve as he will need to resolve his inevitable customer issues on his own and that is going to be interesting.
Thursday, April 2, 2009
Monday, March 30, 2009
Another one of Steve's deceits comes to light
As almost everybody knows, unfortunatly, I have no way of defending myself as I do not have access to the Crosman Forum where Steve is now parked and unloading on me with his deceit and deceptions nor can I of course defend myself on the YP's and Steve knows it. This is my only place of defense. What bothers me is that the Crosman forum permits it and then I'm not be able to post there to defend myself but that's their decision.
As usual, Steve is talking in lies, half truths and presenting mis-representations.
Referring to the previous post comment:
What Steve is referring to in the previous post comment here on the blog and on the Crossman forum is the first original GTX and refers to it as the GTX, which was the first one that Tim made. Steve was made aware that Tim had created a dimensional drawing. However, Tim had to make the dimensional drawing based on the MK-I. It was the only thing there was to work with. I had then informed Steve that we had finally completed a dimensional drawing with all of the pertinent information needed to set up a CNC program and were going to make a small run based on his trigger and picture.
So yes, there was a dimensional drawing but it sure wasn't something that he had and doesn't have to this day. If he would have had a dimentional drawing he would have made his trigger a couple of years ago but he didn't. He wasn't capable of doing it and making it right. He proved that in the past.
Though the trigger was better in quality than Steve’s original trigger MK-I trigger that he had made off shore it was still far from being acceptable and had the same old design issues. Even though for all intent and purposes it was useless, we now had a basic dimensional drawing of sorts to work with, no thanks to Steve.
The point here is Steve never did send a dimensional drawing of the GTX trigger because at the time there wasn’t one. The only drawing there was at the time was of the MK-I and that wasn’t even a dimensional drawing, just a drawing and was as useless as his trigger itself.
In fact, now that I think back, Steve could not even provide a dimensional drawing because he was using the E-Machine on-line machine software and they have it protected so that you cannot download or retrieve your drawings from their server and it is their property. He couldn’t provide one if he wanted to.
The only dimensional drawing that Steve ever sent me and Tim was one made on another program that he finally got for the SuperSear and even that didn’t work correctly and had to be totally redone. It didn’t function properly either just as everything else that he “designed” at the time.
Tim, the manufacturer at the time, later tried to expose Steve and his deceit and fabrications that he was posting. Of course they were wiped out shortly after being posted on the YP’s. Like everything else, Steve couldn’t let the post stand or information get out and expose him. It read as below.
Wednesday Nov. 14, 2007
Regarding Tim's (the manufacturer) effort to correct Steve-in NC's fabrications and falsehoods
on the YP's in regards to the below post and how it was immediately deleted in an attempt preventing anybody from reading it and Steve's exposure. Here a copy of the e-mail that I sent to Walter that I received from Tim (my manufacturer) after his efforts to inform those on the YP's of the incorrectness of Steve-in-NC statements and claims.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Walter:
I just got a call from Tim. Tim did respond to the thread that I was referring to in my e-mail.
At first Tim said he had difficulty posting it but was finally able to get it up a little after midnight. I guess he had to go through some process. However, once it was posted, it was deleted within a matter of a couple of hours and when he tried to repost it, it seems that he no longer could post. Anyhow, below is a copy of the e-mail that he sent me along with a copy of the post that was deleted.Steve had to get rid of the post fast and at that time of night I doubt many would have had the opportunity to read it in the short time that it was up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim's e-mail to me
Charlie:
I tried to put the below post on the YP Gamo forum last night but was unable to post it at first. I was finally able to get it posted a little after midnight. I was finally able to post but it was deleted a short time later. I made a copy of the post at first because I had trouble posting and saved it just in case.
Post Preview
Regarding the GTX triggers
November 13 2007 at 10:54 PM
Tim
First I would like to let everyone know that I am the person that manufactured the triggers for Charlie and Steve when they were partners. Charlie approached me to make the triggers because he was having a lot of problems with both the poor design issues, safety, and they were being poorly manufactured overseas.
I was not provided with any detailed dimentional drawing and had nothing but a basic picture, the original version trigger to start with. We, Charlie and I, did everything starting from scratch. Charlie spent many nights and much testing while redesigning the trigger in order for it to work with efficiency as well as a functioning safety.
It was shortly after Charlie perfected it when their partnership broke up. It was then that I was approached by Steve and he wanted to have one design and wanted Charlie to have another another design. That's when I decided to not make any triggers or other parts for them at all. My intent was to stay impartial and neutral.
Steve, your misrepresenting the facts and is not true. And I am not manufacturing the GRT-III trigger as claimed in this or any other post for Steve or Skyler either one and do not intend to.
Leave me out of this mess.
I expect that this post will be deleted almost immediatly but we will see.
Tim
Shortly after this was posted, it disappeared just like everything else that would expose Steve.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I have said time and time again, Steve did come up with the original concept… but that’s all, just a concept. But like every other concept of his, as designed, it just didn’t work. There are only two people that really know the truth and they are Tim, the original manufacturer that I worked with at the time, and myself.
Anything that was ever posted on the YP’s forum regarding the issue, any opposing opinion or statements, anything supportive of me or contrary to what Steve wanted people to hear, see or believe has always been immediately deleted and if the responder made issue about it, they were immediately banned.
Steve is very cunning and shrewd, a liar and good at manipulating both people, as well as the facts and truth to fit his agenda and he has no qualms about cutting someone’s throat or who he destroys or harms do it.
Most people who know much or have been associated with Steve are pretty much aware of it. Just ask yourself, why does he do that? It’s rather simple really. He never wants anybody to hear or know the facts or truth if they don’t fit his agenda or scheme.
It does seem that there are some out there that just don't care about what is truth and what are lies. But at the same time, if they don't or can't hear or not allowed to hear the truth, a defense or opposition, they assume that it must be true. That's where Steve has got them sewed up. Steve will make every attempt to keep them from ever knowing the other side or the truth.
Thanks again everybody.
As usual, Steve is talking in lies, half truths and presenting mis-representations.
Referring to the previous post comment:
What Steve is referring to in the previous post comment here on the blog and on the Crossman forum is the first original GTX and refers to it as the GTX, which was the first one that Tim made. Steve was made aware that Tim had created a dimensional drawing. However, Tim had to make the dimensional drawing based on the MK-I. It was the only thing there was to work with. I had then informed Steve that we had finally completed a dimensional drawing with all of the pertinent information needed to set up a CNC program and were going to make a small run based on his trigger and picture.
So yes, there was a dimensional drawing but it sure wasn't something that he had and doesn't have to this day. If he would have had a dimentional drawing he would have made his trigger a couple of years ago but he didn't. He wasn't capable of doing it and making it right. He proved that in the past.
Though the trigger was better in quality than Steve’s original trigger MK-I trigger that he had made off shore it was still far from being acceptable and had the same old design issues. Even though for all intent and purposes it was useless, we now had a basic dimensional drawing of sorts to work with, no thanks to Steve.
The point here is Steve never did send a dimensional drawing of the GTX trigger because at the time there wasn’t one. The only drawing there was at the time was of the MK-I and that wasn’t even a dimensional drawing, just a drawing and was as useless as his trigger itself.
In fact, now that I think back, Steve could not even provide a dimensional drawing because he was using the E-Machine on-line machine software and they have it protected so that you cannot download or retrieve your drawings from their server and it is their property. He couldn’t provide one if he wanted to.
The only dimensional drawing that Steve ever sent me and Tim was one made on another program that he finally got for the SuperSear and even that didn’t work correctly and had to be totally redone. It didn’t function properly either just as everything else that he “designed” at the time.
Tim, the manufacturer at the time, later tried to expose Steve and his deceit and fabrications that he was posting. Of course they were wiped out shortly after being posted on the YP’s. Like everything else, Steve couldn’t let the post stand or information get out and expose him. It read as below.
Wednesday Nov. 14, 2007
Regarding Tim's (the manufacturer) effort to correct Steve-in NC's fabrications and falsehoods
on the YP's in regards to the below post and how it was immediately deleted in an attempt preventing anybody from reading it and Steve's exposure. Here a copy of the e-mail that I sent to Walter that I received from Tim (my manufacturer) after his efforts to inform those on the YP's of the incorrectness of Steve-in-NC statements and claims.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Walter:
I just got a call from Tim. Tim did respond to the thread that I was referring to in my e-mail.
At first Tim said he had difficulty posting it but was finally able to get it up a little after midnight. I guess he had to go through some process. However, once it was posted, it was deleted within a matter of a couple of hours and when he tried to repost it, it seems that he no longer could post. Anyhow, below is a copy of the e-mail that he sent me along with a copy of the post that was deleted.Steve had to get rid of the post fast and at that time of night I doubt many would have had the opportunity to read it in the short time that it was up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim's e-mail to me
Charlie:
I tried to put the below post on the YP Gamo forum last night but was unable to post it at first. I was finally able to get it posted a little after midnight. I was finally able to post but it was deleted a short time later. I made a copy of the post at first because I had trouble posting and saved it just in case.
Post Preview
Regarding the GTX triggers
November 13 2007 at 10:54 PM
Tim
First I would like to let everyone know that I am the person that manufactured the triggers for Charlie and Steve when they were partners. Charlie approached me to make the triggers because he was having a lot of problems with both the poor design issues, safety, and they were being poorly manufactured overseas.
I was not provided with any detailed dimentional drawing and had nothing but a basic picture, the original version trigger to start with. We, Charlie and I, did everything starting from scratch. Charlie spent many nights and much testing while redesigning the trigger in order for it to work with efficiency as well as a functioning safety.
It was shortly after Charlie perfected it when their partnership broke up. It was then that I was approached by Steve and he wanted to have one design and wanted Charlie to have another another design. That's when I decided to not make any triggers or other parts for them at all. My intent was to stay impartial and neutral.
Steve, your misrepresenting the facts and is not true. And I am not manufacturing the GRT-III trigger as claimed in this or any other post for Steve or Skyler either one and do not intend to.
Leave me out of this mess.
I expect that this post will be deleted almost immediatly but we will see.
Tim
Shortly after this was posted, it disappeared just like everything else that would expose Steve.
--------------------------------------------------------------
As I have said time and time again, Steve did come up with the original concept… but that’s all, just a concept. But like every other concept of his, as designed, it just didn’t work. There are only two people that really know the truth and they are Tim, the original manufacturer that I worked with at the time, and myself.
Anything that was ever posted on the YP’s forum regarding the issue, any opposing opinion or statements, anything supportive of me or contrary to what Steve wanted people to hear, see or believe has always been immediately deleted and if the responder made issue about it, they were immediately banned.
Steve is very cunning and shrewd, a liar and good at manipulating both people, as well as the facts and truth to fit his agenda and he has no qualms about cutting someone’s throat or who he destroys or harms do it.
Most people who know much or have been associated with Steve are pretty much aware of it. Just ask yourself, why does he do that? It’s rather simple really. He never wants anybody to hear or know the facts or truth if they don’t fit his agenda or scheme.
It does seem that there are some out there that just don't care about what is truth and what are lies. But at the same time, if they don't or can't hear or not allowed to hear the truth, a defense or opposition, they assume that it must be true. That's where Steve has got them sewed up. Steve will make every attempt to keep them from ever knowing the other side or the truth.
Thanks again everybody.
Wednesday, March 25, 2009
Steve finally copied the trigger
3/25/09
Steve Woodward, also known as Steve-in-NC after 2 ½ years of effort has finally been able to (in part at least) been able to finally copy my original GTX-II and GTX-III trigger. It seems that he has also been able to find both someone to manufacture it in this country (rather that having his poorly and inefficiently unsafe designed original MK-1 and GTX trigger) instead of being manufactured off shore.
Why did it take him so long? Because he wasn’t capable of doing it on his own without copying it. If you look at his design, it is similar to my old version of the GRT-II and GRT-III. It was only marketed for a very short time and was obsolete a couple of years ago. It is a copy the GTX-II and GTX-III of which he had no part in the trigger redesigning.
However, it is not like the GRT-III trigger (it would be very difficult and expensive to do) and it certainly does not have the quality of the GRT-III.
Also, because of his inability and being unable to even develop his own instructions and other written materials, he has copied much of his ideas and promotional aides either in full or in part from my website. Steves idea of success is to take whatever he can from anybody that he can and use it to promote himself or agenda. He is incapable of doing much on his own because he just doesn’t have the ability and most people that know Steve are well aware of it.
If the GRT-III trigger design is a trigger design that Steve claims I had so-called stolen from him, why didn’t he just manufacture and market it years ago. Why did he take so long? I’ll tell you why. It took him that long to make a CNC dimentional drawing for it, then make a CNC program for it and then to find someone to manufacture it.
As I have always said in the past, Steve did come up with the original MK-I trigger but the concept and product just never worked. It was sorry at best. It wasn’t any different than many of the other original ideas that he has come up with. They either didn’t work or had many faults and others had to perfect them.
Also, because of his inability and being unable to develop his own instructions and other written materials, he has copied much of his promotional aides directly in full or in part directly from my website. His idea of success is to take whatever he can from anybody that he can and use it to promote himself. He is incapable of doing much on his own because he just doesn’t have the ability and most people that know Steve are well aware of it.
Almost everyone in the realm of airguns that follows the forums knows Steve has made attempts to manufacture his other “developed” mods, has had little to no success with either manufacturing or marketing his (products) because of either the poor designs, reliability, workmanship, quality or his poor relationships with the persons that he works with or a combination of.
If you knew Steve as I know Steve, you would readily understand why. It starts out good and he does have a smooth tongue but it doesn’t take long for them to see him for what and who he really is and has always failed.
As the manufacturer and marketing agent, my customer service history is impeccable. As everyone that has ever purchased a GRT-III trigger (as well as the original GTX-III trigger) knows, I am personally available to answer any and all questions regarding the GRT-III trigger. Although it rarely happens, if there is an installation problem, I’m always available and respond usually within minutes of being made aware of it either by phone if a number is provided or an immediate e-mail. My customers contact me directly and don’t go through some commercial third party. They go directly to the source. Do you think for one minute Steve will provide that kind of personal service?
Please take the time to review the rest of the blog.
Thanks all.
Bob aka: CDT
Steve Woodward, also known as Steve-in-NC after 2 ½ years of effort has finally been able to (in part at least) been able to finally copy my original GTX-II and GTX-III trigger. It seems that he has also been able to find both someone to manufacture it in this country (rather that having his poorly and inefficiently unsafe designed original MK-1 and GTX trigger) instead of being manufactured off shore.
Why did it take him so long? Because he wasn’t capable of doing it on his own without copying it. If you look at his design, it is similar to my old version of the GRT-II and GRT-III. It was only marketed for a very short time and was obsolete a couple of years ago. It is a copy the GTX-II and GTX-III of which he had no part in the trigger redesigning.
However, it is not like the GRT-III trigger (it would be very difficult and expensive to do) and it certainly does not have the quality of the GRT-III.
Also, because of his inability and being unable to even develop his own instructions and other written materials, he has copied much of his ideas and promotional aides either in full or in part from my website. Steves idea of success is to take whatever he can from anybody that he can and use it to promote himself or agenda. He is incapable of doing much on his own because he just doesn’t have the ability and most people that know Steve are well aware of it.
If the GRT-III trigger design is a trigger design that Steve claims I had so-called stolen from him, why didn’t he just manufacture and market it years ago. Why did he take so long? I’ll tell you why. It took him that long to make a CNC dimentional drawing for it, then make a CNC program for it and then to find someone to manufacture it.
As I have always said in the past, Steve did come up with the original MK-I trigger but the concept and product just never worked. It was sorry at best. It wasn’t any different than many of the other original ideas that he has come up with. They either didn’t work or had many faults and others had to perfect them.
Also, because of his inability and being unable to develop his own instructions and other written materials, he has copied much of his promotional aides directly in full or in part directly from my website. His idea of success is to take whatever he can from anybody that he can and use it to promote himself. He is incapable of doing much on his own because he just doesn’t have the ability and most people that know Steve are well aware of it.
Almost everyone in the realm of airguns that follows the forums knows Steve has made attempts to manufacture his other “developed” mods, has had little to no success with either manufacturing or marketing his (products) because of either the poor designs, reliability, workmanship, quality or his poor relationships with the persons that he works with or a combination of.
If you knew Steve as I know Steve, you would readily understand why. It starts out good and he does have a smooth tongue but it doesn’t take long for them to see him for what and who he really is and has always failed.
As the manufacturer and marketing agent, my customer service history is impeccable. As everyone that has ever purchased a GRT-III trigger (as well as the original GTX-III trigger) knows, I am personally available to answer any and all questions regarding the GRT-III trigger. Although it rarely happens, if there is an installation problem, I’m always available and respond usually within minutes of being made aware of it either by phone if a number is provided or an immediate e-mail. My customers contact me directly and don’t go through some commercial third party. They go directly to the source. Do you think for one minute Steve will provide that kind of personal service?
Please take the time to review the rest of the blog.
Thanks all.
Bob aka: CDT
Tuesday, November 20, 2007
Another lie from Steve-in-NC
This was brought to my attention just recently. It's on the Network 54 Yellow Pages Forum.
Steve in NC July 11 2006, 9:17 AM (Login pneuguy)70.144.169.206
The ONLY aftermarket hammer debounce device that WORKS is my design. And it was stolen...
...a couple of weeks after its introduction by my so-called "partner," Bob Werner. Thanks to Bob's greed, it's now off the market. So now there's none.Which is a pity. Because there was quite a lot of work wrapped up in its development and, as Larry's effort here proves, making a debouncer that actually works, ain't so easy.
Steve
What a liar and hypocrite Steve is.
I never stole anything from him let alone the HDD's. I split the remaining HDD inventory with Steve when we parted company and wholesaled mine out immediately. The Right handed ones sold out in two weeks and I still have a couple of the old left handed ones left that never did sell. Yes, it's off the market now as far as I'm concerned because I don't make them anymore. I have never made a single HDD, not one, since we parted company and never will.
Also, if you look back, he and Skyler have been selling these all along so it seems or at least they are on Skylers website. Steve is so full of bull, lies and deception.
Steve in NC July 11 2006, 9:17 AM (Login pneuguy)70.144.169.206
The ONLY aftermarket hammer debounce device that WORKS is my design. And it was stolen...
...a couple of weeks after its introduction by my so-called "partner," Bob Werner. Thanks to Bob's greed, it's now off the market. So now there's none.Which is a pity. Because there was quite a lot of work wrapped up in its development and, as Larry's effort here proves, making a debouncer that actually works, ain't so easy.
Steve
What a liar and hypocrite Steve is.
I never stole anything from him let alone the HDD's. I split the remaining HDD inventory with Steve when we parted company and wholesaled mine out immediately. The Right handed ones sold out in two weeks and I still have a couple of the old left handed ones left that never did sell. Yes, it's off the market now as far as I'm concerned because I don't make them anymore. I have never made a single HDD, not one, since we parted company and never will.
Also, if you look back, he and Skyler have been selling these all along so it seems or at least they are on Skylers website. Steve is so full of bull, lies and deception.
Wednesday, November 14, 2007
Regarding Tim's (the manufacturer) effort to correct Steve-in NC's fabrications and falsehoods
on the YP's in regards to the below article and how it was immediatly deleted in an attempt preventing anybody from reading it.
Here a copy of the e-mail that I sent to Walter G that I received from Tim (my manufacturer) after his efforts to inform those on the YP's of the incorrectness of Steve-in-NC statements and claims.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Walter:
I just got a call from Tim.
Tim did respond to the thread that I was referring to in my e-mail. At first Tim said he had difficulty posting it but was finally able to get it up a little after midnight. I guess he had to go through some process. However, once it was posted, it was deleted within a matter of a couple of hours and when he tried to repost it, it seems that he no longer could post. Anyhow, below is a copy of the e-mail that he sent me along with a copy of the post that was deleted.
Steve had to get rid of the post fast and at that time of night I doubt many would have had the opportunity to read it in the short time that it was up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charlie:
I tried to put the below post on the YP Gamo forum last night but was unable to post it at first. I was finally able to get it posted a little after midnight. I was finally able to post but it was deleted a short time later. I made a copy of the post at first because I had trouble posting and saved it just in case.
Post Preview
Regarding the GTX triggers
November 13 2007 at 10:54 PM
Tim
First I would like to let everyone know that I am the person that manufactured the triggers for Charlie and Steve when they were partners. Charlie approached me to make the triggers because he was having a lot of problems with both the p00r design issues, safety, and they were being poorly manufactured overseas.
I was not provided with any detailed dimentional drawing and had nothing but a basic picture, the original version trigger to start with. We, Charlie and I, did everything starting from scratch. Charlie spent many nights and much testing while redesigning the trigger in order for it to work with efficiency as well as a functioning safety. It was shortly after Charlie perfected it when their partnership broke up. It was then that I was approached by Steve and he wanted to have one design and wanted Charlie to have another another design. That's when I decided to not make any triggers or other parts for them at all. My intent was to stay impartial and neutral.
Steve, your misrepresenting the facts and is not true. And I am not manufacturing the GRT-III trigger as claimed in this or any other post for Steve or Skyler either one and do not intend to. Leave me out of this mess.
I expect that this post will be deleted almost immediatly but we will see.
Tim
----------------------------------------------------------------
Here a copy of the e-mail that I sent to Walter G that I received from Tim (my manufacturer) after his efforts to inform those on the YP's of the incorrectness of Steve-in-NC statements and claims.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Walter:
I just got a call from Tim.
Tim did respond to the thread that I was referring to in my e-mail. At first Tim said he had difficulty posting it but was finally able to get it up a little after midnight. I guess he had to go through some process. However, once it was posted, it was deleted within a matter of a couple of hours and when he tried to repost it, it seems that he no longer could post. Anyhow, below is a copy of the e-mail that he sent me along with a copy of the post that was deleted.
Steve had to get rid of the post fast and at that time of night I doubt many would have had the opportunity to read it in the short time that it was up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charlie:
I tried to put the below post on the YP Gamo forum last night but was unable to post it at first. I was finally able to get it posted a little after midnight. I was finally able to post but it was deleted a short time later. I made a copy of the post at first because I had trouble posting and saved it just in case.
Post Preview
Regarding the GTX triggers
November 13 2007 at 10:54 PM
Tim
First I would like to let everyone know that I am the person that manufactured the triggers for Charlie and Steve when they were partners. Charlie approached me to make the triggers because he was having a lot of problems with both the p00r design issues, safety, and they were being poorly manufactured overseas.
I was not provided with any detailed dimentional drawing and had nothing but a basic picture, the original version trigger to start with. We, Charlie and I, did everything starting from scratch. Charlie spent many nights and much testing while redesigning the trigger in order for it to work with efficiency as well as a functioning safety. It was shortly after Charlie perfected it when their partnership broke up. It was then that I was approached by Steve and he wanted to have one design and wanted Charlie to have another another design. That's when I decided to not make any triggers or other parts for them at all. My intent was to stay impartial and neutral.
Steve, your misrepresenting the facts and is not true. And I am not manufacturing the GRT-III trigger as claimed in this or any other post for Steve or Skyler either one and do not intend to. Leave me out of this mess.
I expect that this post will be deleted almost immediatly but we will see.
Tim
----------------------------------------------------------------
Deception about Steve's-Skylers triggers and more
This is in regards to one of the latest tactics of Steve-in-NC. I sent an e-mail to Walter G in response to a post.
Hi Walter:
I very seldom e-mail people regarding posts made on the YP’s but when I do, it’s only that I cannot respond to their post (including yours) in any other way.
Perhaps you don’t want to hear what I have to say or even have no interest in my side of the controversy and I am certainly not asking you to take sides. Hopefully you will give me the courtesy of reading this but if not, I understand with no ill feelings on my part.
Regarding your post on the YP-Gamo and the responses
http://www.network54.com/Forum/479035/thread/1194922640/Steve,+where+are+the+GTX+triggers+made-+USA-
There is no truth in what Steve has said in his posts and makes those statements only to discredit me and further his own agenda. I can only put up posts on my forum, the GTA, regarding issues because it’s the only way I can put up any defense at all and others from the YP’s are either members here also under different names or at least come to the GTA and read the posts. He knows as do you and many others, that I have absolutely no way of defending myself on the YP’s or can anybody else post a defense on my behalf because he will immediately (or have CT Steve) delete them and usually ban the person that makes the post. As you well know, they always “disappear” within a very short time keeping as few as possible from viewing them.
I just wanted to make some points about that post.
Steve’s statement about: In fact every single... GTX blade that was ever made, worked. There were no "failures”.
They were all failures, all of them but the reason that they worked and there were in his words, “no failures” is because I had to remake them, every single one. And then there was still the problem that the safeties did not work even when they were reworked. It could not be made to work without failing because of the design. I had to make a lot of refunds because the customers were so dissatisfied and I made those refunds with no questions asked.
Below is the first MK-1-GTX that Steve designed (he never shows this), had made and sent to me that I had to grind out the nose to make work as well as modify the pivot holes to even get the pins in. No safety and not first stage adjustable.
(sorry but I could not post the picture here)
In his post, the upper left picture (in the group of three) is the second version of Steve’s trigger, MK-I GTX ver.2 that he had made and shipped to me. I had to do a lot of work on every one of them to make them work and able to sell. It too wasn’t first stage adjustable and still had the safety issue.
The bottom trigger in the group was his third (and final) version he had made that had an adjustment screw but was incorrectly placed and incorrect angle. The pivot pin holes were still incorrect and every one had to be drilled oversize and hand fitted to be able to fit into the trigger. And the safety was not right. This was the GTX-I. He just never got it right….ever….and I was sick of it.
Every trigger Steve ever had made and sent to me were sub-manufactured by E-Machine and made off shore. It was cheap, a little over $4.00 each as I recall, and the end results very bad due both in part to faulty design as well as poor workmanship. Not a single one of them would have ever been sold had I not reworked them. He knows it and I know it.
It was at this point that I informed Steve that I was tired of having to redo every trigger to make them work and done peddling his trigger and dealing with customers. I refused to take any more triggers that he made and was going to try to find someone locally to hopefully design manufacture and a trigger that would not only function properly but not need to be modified or repaired.
And that’s what I did. I finally found Tim that was not only a machinist but also happened to be somewhat of an AG enthusiast. After a couple of months and much trial and error and testing, we got it right. The new trigger became the GTX-II. That is the trigger on the upper right in Steve’s group of three. He had absolutely no input to the redesign of that trigger. It was a new approach to the concept and to the trigger and its problems.
My cost to manufacture the new GTX-II triggers doubled not including the setup and CNC programming. We ate those ourselves. Steve never shared in those costs but even then, I continued to pay him ½ of the net profit until the day that we “dissolved” our partnership on 6/30/06. (It might be noted that I paid him 50% of the net profits all along and he did absolutely nothing in the past except send me inferior product during our entire “partnership”). On that final day I issued him a final check of $2036.87. In addition to the check, I sent him ½ of the entire final parts inventory of all the products of which there were 28 GTX-III and sent him 14. I never cheated him out of a single dime.
The first of the GTX-II’s (the new series of triggers that Tim and I designed and manufactured) came off the line on 12/09/05.
Tim and I improved it further and the next trigger revision, the GTX-III, came off the line on 7/7/06. (The pictures shown of the GRT-III on the lower part of that post and were the ones that the manufacturer and I made and not Steve’s as he would like to make you and everybody else believe).
Then later, after the split with Steve on 6/30/06, we improved it even further and renamed it the GRT-III trigger. It came off the line about 8/15/06.
I have always given Steve the credit for the original concept and design but standing on its own, it never would have worked as designed regardless of what he would like others to believe. However, the GTX-II trigger forward to the GRT-III trigger of today is not his trigger design but was the time and hard work put into it by Tim and me.
Steve’s and a couple of others statements about me being a liar, crook, and thief among other things is ridiculous. I doubt that you can find a single person anywhere that can honestly say that I have cheated them or stole from them or lied to them or bilked them out of anything at any time. That’s not to say that Steve wouldn’t get someone to make that kind of a statement which he certainly is capable of doing.
And one last point… I contacted Tim after the post was brought to my attention and he told me that the post by Steve were lies and were not true at all. The triggers that Skyler is now marketing were not made by Tim, the person that made my triggers in the past. In fact, he will have absolutely nothing to do with Steve and has no respect for him. I am good friends with Tim and see him almost weekly and for Steve to make the statement:
“I think there were a few years there (like 1861 to 1865) when it wasn't. And actually, Walter, just to improve the story, the GTX blades being sold by Skyler were made by the same SC machinest who refused to continue to make them for that scaley fellow, when the fishie guy "retired."It seems the machinest couldn't be talked into forgetting whose name was on the original dimensioned drawings he was given to do the CNC programming from.Short version: there really are honest men out there.Steve”
This is Steve, again “And actually, Walter, just to improve the story”, just improving his story….. And again, this is far from the truth and Tim has never made any triggers or any other parts for Steve or Skyler ever. Any parts that were by Tim were either though me or for me.
Tim told me that he is going to put up a response up to the post stating that Steve’s claims are untrue and that they are not his triggers. I expect that it won’t last long though.
Walter…I have no reason to lie and Steve has every reason in his mind for lying and his bitterness. He will do everything in his power to discredit and to destroy me because he no longer has a ninny and cash cow that he had taken advantage of for so long. He received a great deal of money for nothing for a long time and at my expense and when I finally had enough and ended it, he couldn’t handle it and has been relentless in his retribution ever since.
Steve is an admitted atheist, and in my opinion, an unscrupulous person without conscience and he has no qualms about straying from the truth, creating deception and being less than honest or doing whatever it takes to destroy someone or their character for whatever his reason or at his whim. Having been in partnership and working with him on a personal level, I am fully aware of how he thinks, what he is capable of doing and how he does it, especially when it comes to his own benefit and ego or what ever fits his agenda. I feel sorry for Steve and perhaps one day the Lord will come into his heart. Perhaps you have no religious belief and that is fine but I myself just happen to be a Christian and I know He leads me in the right directions and I’ve always tried to do what’s right and that’s all that really matters to me.
Thank you for your time and indulgence Walter and sorry for the rambling.
Bob Werner aka: Charlie
Hi Walter:
I very seldom e-mail people regarding posts made on the YP’s but when I do, it’s only that I cannot respond to their post (including yours) in any other way.
Perhaps you don’t want to hear what I have to say or even have no interest in my side of the controversy and I am certainly not asking you to take sides. Hopefully you will give me the courtesy of reading this but if not, I understand with no ill feelings on my part.
Regarding your post on the YP-Gamo and the responses
http://www.network54.com/Forum/479035/thread/1194922640/Steve,+where+are+the+GTX+triggers+made-+USA-
There is no truth in what Steve has said in his posts and makes those statements only to discredit me and further his own agenda. I can only put up posts on my forum, the GTA, regarding issues because it’s the only way I can put up any defense at all and others from the YP’s are either members here also under different names or at least come to the GTA and read the posts. He knows as do you and many others, that I have absolutely no way of defending myself on the YP’s or can anybody else post a defense on my behalf because he will immediately (or have CT Steve) delete them and usually ban the person that makes the post. As you well know, they always “disappear” within a very short time keeping as few as possible from viewing them.
I just wanted to make some points about that post.
Steve’s statement about: In fact every single... GTX blade that was ever made, worked. There were no "failures”.
They were all failures, all of them but the reason that they worked and there were in his words, “no failures” is because I had to remake them, every single one. And then there was still the problem that the safeties did not work even when they were reworked. It could not be made to work without failing because of the design. I had to make a lot of refunds because the customers were so dissatisfied and I made those refunds with no questions asked.
Below is the first MK-1-GTX that Steve designed (he never shows this), had made and sent to me that I had to grind out the nose to make work as well as modify the pivot holes to even get the pins in. No safety and not first stage adjustable.
(sorry but I could not post the picture here)
In his post, the upper left picture (in the group of three) is the second version of Steve’s trigger, MK-I GTX ver.2 that he had made and shipped to me. I had to do a lot of work on every one of them to make them work and able to sell. It too wasn’t first stage adjustable and still had the safety issue.
The bottom trigger in the group was his third (and final) version he had made that had an adjustment screw but was incorrectly placed and incorrect angle. The pivot pin holes were still incorrect and every one had to be drilled oversize and hand fitted to be able to fit into the trigger. And the safety was not right. This was the GTX-I. He just never got it right….ever….and I was sick of it.
Every trigger Steve ever had made and sent to me were sub-manufactured by E-Machine and made off shore. It was cheap, a little over $4.00 each as I recall, and the end results very bad due both in part to faulty design as well as poor workmanship. Not a single one of them would have ever been sold had I not reworked them. He knows it and I know it.
It was at this point that I informed Steve that I was tired of having to redo every trigger to make them work and done peddling his trigger and dealing with customers. I refused to take any more triggers that he made and was going to try to find someone locally to hopefully design manufacture and a trigger that would not only function properly but not need to be modified or repaired.
And that’s what I did. I finally found Tim that was not only a machinist but also happened to be somewhat of an AG enthusiast. After a couple of months and much trial and error and testing, we got it right. The new trigger became the GTX-II. That is the trigger on the upper right in Steve’s group of three. He had absolutely no input to the redesign of that trigger. It was a new approach to the concept and to the trigger and its problems.
My cost to manufacture the new GTX-II triggers doubled not including the setup and CNC programming. We ate those ourselves. Steve never shared in those costs but even then, I continued to pay him ½ of the net profit until the day that we “dissolved” our partnership on 6/30/06. (It might be noted that I paid him 50% of the net profits all along and he did absolutely nothing in the past except send me inferior product during our entire “partnership”). On that final day I issued him a final check of $2036.87. In addition to the check, I sent him ½ of the entire final parts inventory of all the products of which there were 28 GTX-III and sent him 14. I never cheated him out of a single dime.
The first of the GTX-II’s (the new series of triggers that Tim and I designed and manufactured) came off the line on 12/09/05.
Tim and I improved it further and the next trigger revision, the GTX-III, came off the line on 7/7/06. (The pictures shown of the GRT-III on the lower part of that post and were the ones that the manufacturer and I made and not Steve’s as he would like to make you and everybody else believe).
Then later, after the split with Steve on 6/30/06, we improved it even further and renamed it the GRT-III trigger. It came off the line about 8/15/06.
I have always given Steve the credit for the original concept and design but standing on its own, it never would have worked as designed regardless of what he would like others to believe. However, the GTX-II trigger forward to the GRT-III trigger of today is not his trigger design but was the time and hard work put into it by Tim and me.
Steve’s and a couple of others statements about me being a liar, crook, and thief among other things is ridiculous. I doubt that you can find a single person anywhere that can honestly say that I have cheated them or stole from them or lied to them or bilked them out of anything at any time. That’s not to say that Steve wouldn’t get someone to make that kind of a statement which he certainly is capable of doing.
And one last point… I contacted Tim after the post was brought to my attention and he told me that the post by Steve were lies and were not true at all. The triggers that Skyler is now marketing were not made by Tim, the person that made my triggers in the past. In fact, he will have absolutely nothing to do with Steve and has no respect for him. I am good friends with Tim and see him almost weekly and for Steve to make the statement:
“I think there were a few years there (like 1861 to 1865) when it wasn't. And actually, Walter, just to improve the story, the GTX blades being sold by Skyler were made by the same SC machinest who refused to continue to make them for that scaley fellow, when the fishie guy "retired."It seems the machinest couldn't be talked into forgetting whose name was on the original dimensioned drawings he was given to do the CNC programming from.Short version: there really are honest men out there.Steve”
This is Steve, again “And actually, Walter, just to improve the story”, just improving his story….. And again, this is far from the truth and Tim has never made any triggers or any other parts for Steve or Skyler ever. Any parts that were by Tim were either though me or for me.
Tim told me that he is going to put up a response up to the post stating that Steve’s claims are untrue and that they are not his triggers. I expect that it won’t last long though.
Walter…I have no reason to lie and Steve has every reason in his mind for lying and his bitterness. He will do everything in his power to discredit and to destroy me because he no longer has a ninny and cash cow that he had taken advantage of for so long. He received a great deal of money for nothing for a long time and at my expense and when I finally had enough and ended it, he couldn’t handle it and has been relentless in his retribution ever since.
Steve is an admitted atheist, and in my opinion, an unscrupulous person without conscience and he has no qualms about straying from the truth, creating deception and being less than honest or doing whatever it takes to destroy someone or their character for whatever his reason or at his whim. Having been in partnership and working with him on a personal level, I am fully aware of how he thinks, what he is capable of doing and how he does it, especially when it comes to his own benefit and ego or what ever fits his agenda. I feel sorry for Steve and perhaps one day the Lord will come into his heart. Perhaps you have no religious belief and that is fine but I myself just happen to be a Christian and I know He leads me in the right directions and I’ve always tried to do what’s right and that’s all that really matters to me.
Thank you for your time and indulgence Walter and sorry for the rambling.
Bob Werner aka: Charlie
Monday, September 10, 2007
The SuperSear II
After Steve had the SuperSears (there were two different designs) manufactured and sent to me, it was obvious to me during testing that there were going to once again be several problems with another one of Steve-in-NC's designs and manufacturing. His SuperSear’s were a failure because they were not hard enough in some areas and too thin and brittle in others. When adjusting per Steve’s instructions, the tip would break because it was so thin and brittle.
Also, because of the improperly placed and drilled spring retaining hole, the spring would not stay seated in the hole when installing. In order to get it in and for it to stay in place, the customer would need to bend the spring and make a hook in it, which would shorten it and made it very difficult for some to install. When adjusting per Steve’s instructions, the tip would break because they so thin and brittle. I had to replace many of them because the tips would break off and/or they would wear down on the edge where the sear would seat.
I wound up having to hand heat treat every one of them and then refinish and resurface them to be able to make them acceptable to put them on the market even though the spring issue was still there. It was another case repairing his blunders, poor workmanship and design flaws.
I decided that I was no longer going to market his “SuperSear” and that I was tired of repairing his sears. I went to a local machinist that I had come to know and explained to him my problems and asked him for his opinions and if it were possible to both redesign as well as improve it.
After a couple of weeks of spare time working on it and making prototypes and testing we come up with a new design although it was based somewhat on the original concept that worked exceptionally well. It was also far superior in strength, design and manufacturing than Steve’s SuperSear.
Below in the top picture is Steve-in-NC's SuperSear design. As can be seen, the spring is pulling the sear reward and a strian on the pivot, a change in the sear edge and radius, a change in the pivot and a big change in the nose design.On the bottom is the SuperSear-II that is the redesigned that I did.
But then every once in awhile someone stands up and puts it in his face.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1187978186/To+James+Perotti%2C+I+woulda+posted+below%2C+but+it+was+locked
Also, because of the improperly placed and drilled spring retaining hole, the spring would not stay seated in the hole when installing. In order to get it in and for it to stay in place, the customer would need to bend the spring and make a hook in it, which would shorten it and made it very difficult for some to install. When adjusting per Steve’s instructions, the tip would break because they so thin and brittle. I had to replace many of them because the tips would break off and/or they would wear down on the edge where the sear would seat.
I wound up having to hand heat treat every one of them and then refinish and resurface them to be able to make them acceptable to put them on the market even though the spring issue was still there. It was another case repairing his blunders, poor workmanship and design flaws.
I decided that I was no longer going to market his “SuperSear” and that I was tired of repairing his sears. I went to a local machinist that I had come to know and explained to him my problems and asked him for his opinions and if it were possible to both redesign as well as improve it.
After a couple of weeks of spare time working on it and making prototypes and testing we come up with a new design although it was based somewhat on the original concept that worked exceptionally well. It was also far superior in strength, design and manufacturing than Steve’s SuperSear.
Below in the top picture is Steve-in-NC's SuperSear design. As can be seen, the spring is pulling the sear reward and a strian on the pivot, a change in the sear edge and radius, a change in the pivot and a big change in the nose design.On the bottom is the SuperSear-II that is the redesigned that I did.
I sent this new design as well as a couple of the new sears to Steve but he wasn’t impressed. I guess that was because it wasn’t his any longer. Anyhow, I decided to go ahead and manufacture it regardless of his thoughts and called them the SuperSear-II.
The new SuperSear-II’s sold well and never had any problems or customer complaints. It was just a few months later that Steve and I parted company
and I passed half of the remaining inventory of the new SuperSear-II’s on to him at that time.
Now let’s fast forward about a year and a half.
Here it is Sept. 2007 and it now appears the Steve is in the process of making the SuperSear. And guess what? It’s not his design but the one that my machinist and I developed Not only is it the new design that my machinist put together that Steve was not impressed with but as you can see, he has also taken the pictures on my website showing the new sear in the trigger and it’s installation and makes it appear as it was his. Then, Steve added some script to it showing how it functions. And this is the guy that’s always screaming “plagiarize” and “stealing” from him. That's typical of Steve though.
The new SuperSear-II’s sold well and never had any problems or customer complaints. It was just a few months later that Steve and I parted company
and I passed half of the remaining inventory of the new SuperSear-II’s on to him at that time.Now let’s fast forward about a year and a half.
Here it is Sept. 2007 and it now appears the Steve is in the process of making the SuperSear. And guess what? It’s not his design but the one that my machinist and I developed Not only is it the new design that my machinist put together that Steve was not impressed with but as you can see, he has also taken the pictures on my website showing the new sear in the trigger and it’s installation and makes it appear as it was his. Then, Steve added some script to it showing how it functions. And this is the guy that’s always screaming “plagiarize” and “stealing” from him. That's typical of Steve though.But then every once in awhile someone stands up and puts it in his face.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1187978186/To+James+Perotti%2C+I+woulda+posted+below%2C+but+it+was+locked
So now you have an understanding of Steve's SuperSear and how through my efforts in changing a big part of the geometrical design evolved into the SuperSear-II and something that really works.
One thing about Steve Woodward (Steve-in-NC). He does a lot of research evidently and occasionally sees something that he thinks he can improve on. Usually it doesn't work it. But...even though he brought it up and it wasn't his and if someone else picks up on it and is successful in making it work, you stole it from him. Steve does not live in the real world. All he does is glean information or ideas from others and apply other information in an attempt to come up with something new.
Steve may be a mathematician but he is certainly not an inventor. He is a good "wanna be" inventor though and he is good at stealing other people's ideas and claiming them as his own.
Anyhow, bottom line is that I will reintroduce the SuperSear-II in the near future and it will be the SuperSear-II that I was marketing last year and not the one the Steve Woodward designed.
Anyhow, bottom line is that I will reintroduce the SuperSear-II in the near future and it will be the SuperSear-II that I was marketing last year and not the one the Steve Woodward designed.
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