Wednesday, November 14, 2007

Deception about Steve's-Skylers triggers and more

This is in regards to one of the latest tactics of Steve-in-NC. I sent an e-mail to Walter G in response to a post.


Hi Walter:

I very seldom e-mail people regarding posts made on the YP’s but when I do, it’s only that I cannot respond to their post (including yours) in any other way.

Perhaps you don’t want to hear what I have to say or even have no interest in my side of the controversy and I am certainly not asking you to take sides. Hopefully you will give me the courtesy of reading this but if not, I understand with no ill feelings on my part.

Regarding your post on the YP-Gamo and the responses


http://www.network54.com/Forum/479035/thread/1194922640/Steve,+where+are+the+GTX+triggers+made-+USA-

There is no truth in what Steve has said in his posts and makes those statements only to discredit me and further his own agenda. I can only put up posts on my forum, the GTA, regarding issues because it’s the only way I can put up any defense at all and others from the YP’s are either members here also under different names or at least come to the GTA and read the posts. He knows as do you and many others, that I have absolutely no way of defending myself on the YP’s or can anybody else post a defense on my behalf because he will immediately (or have CT Steve) delete them and usually ban the person that makes the post. As you well know, they always “disappear” within a very short time keeping as few as possible from viewing them.

I just wanted to make some points about that post.

Steve’s statement about: In fact every single... GTX blade that was ever made, worked. There were no "failures”.

They were all failures, all of them but the reason that they worked and there were in his words, “no failures” is because I had to remake them, every single one. And then there was still the problem that the safeties did not work even when they were reworked. It could not be made to work without failing because of the design. I had to make a lot of refunds because the customers were so dissatisfied and I made those refunds with no questions asked.

Below is the first MK-1-GTX that Steve designed (he never shows this), had made and sent to me that I had to grind out the nose to make work as well as modify the pivot holes to even get the pins in. No safety and not first stage adjustable.

(sorry but I could not post the picture here)


In his post, the upper left picture (in the group of three) is the second version of Steve’s trigger, MK-I GTX ver.2 that he had made and shipped to me. I had to do a lot of work on every one of them to make them work and able to sell. It too wasn’t first stage adjustable and still had the safety issue.

The bottom trigger in the group was his third (and final) version he had made that had an adjustment screw but was incorrectly placed and incorrect angle. The pivot pin holes were still incorrect and every one had to be drilled oversize and hand fitted to be able to fit into the trigger. And the safety was not right. This was the GTX-I. He just never got it right….ever….and I was sick of it.

Every trigger Steve ever had made and sent to me were sub-manufactured by E-Machine and made off shore. It was cheap, a little over $4.00 each as I recall, and the end results very bad due both in part to faulty design as well as poor workmanship. Not a single one of them would have ever been sold had I not reworked them. He knows it and I know it.

It was at this point that I informed Steve that I was tired of having to redo every trigger to make them work and done peddling his trigger and dealing with customers. I refused to take any more triggers that he made and was going to try to find someone locally to hopefully design manufacture and a trigger that would not only function properly but not need to be modified or repaired.

And that’s what I did. I finally found Tim that was not only a machinist but also happened to be somewhat of an AG enthusiast. After a couple of months and much trial and error and testing, we got it right. The new trigger became the GTX-II. That is the trigger on the upper right in Steve’s group of three. He had absolutely no input to the redesign of that trigger. It was a new approach to the concept and to the trigger and its problems.

My cost to manufacture the new GTX-II triggers doubled not including the setup and CNC programming. We ate those ourselves. Steve never shared in those costs but even then, I continued to pay him ½ of the net profit until the day that we “dissolved” our partnership on 6/30/06. (It might be noted that I paid him 50% of the net profits all along and he did absolutely nothing in the past except send me inferior product during our entire “partnership”). On that final day I issued him a final check of $2036.87. In addition to the check, I sent him ½ of the entire final parts inventory of all the products of which there were 28 GTX-III and sent him 14. I never cheated him out of a single dime.

The first of the GTX-II’s (the new series of triggers that Tim and I designed and manufactured) came off the line on 12/09/05.

Tim and I improved it further and the next trigger revision, the GTX-III, came off the line on 7/7/06. (The pictures shown of the GRT-III on the lower part of that post and were the ones that the manufacturer and I made and not Steve’s as he would like to make you and everybody else believe).

Then later, after the split with Steve on 6/30/06, we improved it even further and renamed it the GRT-III trigger. It came off the line about 8/15/06.


I have always given Steve the credit for the original concept and design but standing on its own, it never would have worked as designed regardless of what he would like others to believe. However, the GTX-II trigger forward to the GRT-III trigger of today is not his trigger design but was the time and hard work put into it by Tim and me.

Steve’s and a couple of others statements about me being a liar, crook, and thief among other things is ridiculous. I doubt that you can find a single person anywhere that can honestly say that I have cheated them or stole from them or lied to them or bilked them out of anything at any time. That’s not to say that Steve wouldn’t get someone to make that kind of a statement which he certainly is capable of doing.

And one last point… I contacted Tim after the post was brought to my attention and he told me that the post by Steve were lies and were not true at all. The triggers that Skyler is now marketing were not made by Tim, the person that made my triggers in the past. In fact, he will have absolutely nothing to do with Steve and has no respect for him. I am good friends with Tim and see him almost weekly and for Steve to make the statement:

“I think there were a few years there (like 1861 to 1865) when it wasn't. And actually, Walter, just to improve the story, the GTX blades being sold by Skyler were made by the same SC machinest who refused to continue to make them for that scaley fellow, when the fishie guy "retired."It seems the machinest couldn't be talked into forgetting whose name was on the original dimensioned drawings he was given to do the CNC programming from.Short version: there really are honest men out there.Steve”

This is Steve, again “And actually, Walter, just to improve the story”, just improving his story….. And again, this is far from the truth and Tim has never made any triggers or any other parts for Steve or Skyler ever. Any parts that were by Tim were either though me or for me.

Tim told me that he is going to put up a response up to the post stating that Steve’s claims are untrue and that they are not his triggers. I expect that it won’t last long though.

Walter…I have no reason to lie and Steve has every reason in his mind for lying and his bitterness. He will do everything in his power to discredit and to destroy me because he no longer has a ninny and cash cow that he had taken advantage of for so long. He received a great deal of money for nothing for a long time and at my expense and when I finally had enough and ended it, he couldn’t handle it and has been relentless in his retribution ever since.

Steve is an admitted atheist, and in my opinion, an unscrupulous person without conscience and he has no qualms about straying from the truth, creating deception and being less than honest or doing whatever it takes to destroy someone or their character for whatever his reason or at his whim. Having been in partnership and working with him on a personal level, I am fully aware of how he thinks, what he is capable of doing and how he does it, especially when it comes to his own benefit and ego or what ever fits his agenda. I feel sorry for Steve and perhaps one day the Lord will come into his heart. Perhaps you have no religious belief and that is fine but I myself just happen to be a Christian and I know He leads me in the right directions and I’ve always tried to do what’s right and that’s all that really matters to me.

Thank you for your time and indulgence Walter and sorry for the rambling.

Bob Werner aka: Charlie

3 comments:

Anonymous said...

Charlie you get deleted from the Yellow forum because you were claiming to use Jim Macarri springs in your tunes and charging for them but not installing them. JM can verify during that time you did not purchase springs from him. Also you tricked Gene Sunday into telling you his method of tuning and then started your own buisness.
I saw on your website a while back you were going to attempt to make HDD but it appears you can not figure it out because SteveNC did not give you the plans on that part as he did for the trigger and sears.

You sir are not to be trusted. I am sure this will be deleted but I will take a screen shot to prove you deleted it.

CharlieDaTuna said...

No, I'm not going to delete your post. I'm not going to stoop to the level of a couple of others on the YP forum. But isn't it a shame when someone posts here and does not have the intestinal fortitude to identify themselves. And you question about who can be trusted and integrity??

I have never ever used any spring other than JM springs with the exception of some guns that JM didn't have springs for. That was such a ridiculous claim that it died almost as quickly as it was brought up. If anybody questions the fact of, let them contact JM and he will set them straight. Jim and I have discussed this issue in the past when that claim was made. There was someone that had done that but James would not tell me who it was.

There is no question that I learned a lot from Gene Sunday. However, it was not until James Kitching contacted me and asked me if I would consider tuning the Chinese guns because Gene was no longer going to work on them. I contacted Gene and he did say that he was no longer going to work on them. So I did asked Gene if that were true and Gene said it was. I did go back to James Kitching and agreed but that I also would need some help. That's when and how I got into the tuning business.

I have always given Steve the credit that was due him. He had good ideas but not one of his ideas/designs that he made and had shipped to me ever worked as designed, not one of them.

You never saw on my website that I was going to "attempt" to make the HDD's. There is no figuring it out... it's already done. I could have any time in the past (and could now) make them anytime that I wanted to because I do have the CNC programming. In fact, Steve does not have the programming or even any dimensional drawings but I may be wrong about the dimensional drawings part. All I ever got from him was a basic picture design. We took it from there and produced the HDD. The same with the original Super Sear that didn't work.

Steve's so called "plans" for triggers, sears, HDD's or whatever are really not an issue simply because not a single one of his mod "designs" ever worked unless they modified. I know because all of the things that he had made were sent to me to be "fixed" as well as possible and then sold.

You "sir" (I say "Sir" with a tremendous amount of reservation) are one of those few that just because someone says something, take it at face value with no concern for the fact's or the truth. There is no question in my mind and in the minds of the majority of others that you lack the knowledge and credibility to make informed decisions let alone pass judgment.

And all of my posts or any body else that posts supporting the truth on the YP’s and only the YP’s or even questions the integrity of the issues and claims of Steve-in-NC or CTSteve, (the forum owner) or defends me or my issues, gets immediately deleted and if pursued, usually gets banned from that forum. They try to catch everything and get it deleted before anybody gets a chance to read it. Anybody with the slightest bit of intelligence I think should be able to see through it and almost all do with a few exceptions. You “sir” appear to be one of those few.

buy a HW said...
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